Only one EV charger at home?!...

[Peeler]

On Sun, 4 Jun 2023 11:00:59 +0100, Idiot Jackass, the notorious,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, driveled again:


> That\'s only because you don\'t know how to do it properly.

He DOES know how to bait you with the dumbest baits, time and again, Idiot
Jackass!

 

[Bob F]

On 6/4/2023 3:00 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:

In message <op.15zhd1dgmvhs6z@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
CK1@nospam.com> writes
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:07:18 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:07, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use
that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using
the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

Both.  With a manual transmission you get some degree of engine
braking, but
you coast if you open the clutch.  Without actively changing down
gear the
amount of engine braking is not massive - if you purely let off the
accelerator doing 70mph on a flat road in top gear you don\'t get
very much
retardation.

It is possible to change down for more, but the engine isn\'t happy
about it
unless you match revs first, so in general it\'s easier to use the
brakes.

Engine braking is not something you\'d do around town or on a regular
motorway unless you\'re in a hilly area, so most people don\'t use it
very
often.

Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use engine
braking for almost all stops, including around town.

I was, in 1997.  I stopped doing that as soon as I passed the test.
Braking is much more controllable.  Engine braking is all or nothing,
completely unsuitable for gracefully changing speed.

That\'s only because you don\'t know how to do it properly.

 Think about the erson behind you seeing a car lurching about with no
brakelights.

They soon learn not to drive too close to you.

These days they
tend to rely on brakes and just change down to whatever gear they expect
to need as the set off or speed up again.

A much more sensible idea.

The best idea is to compromise with a sensible mixture of gear-changing
and braking.

After I used engine braking as I stopped at his motorcycle shop, the
owner told me that brake shoes were way cheaper than engine,
transmission and clutch repairs.

 

[nib]

On Sun, 04 Jun 2023 10:26:26 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 6/4/2023 3:00 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message <op.15zhd1dgmvhs6z@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
CK1@nospam.com> writes
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:07:18 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:07, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust
the retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through
to quite aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular
transmission where you have to use the brake pedal, whereas with
higher levels you can drive with accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use
that to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of
using the brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower
gear.

Both.  With a manual transmission you get some degree of engine
braking, but you coast if you open the clutch.  Without actively
changing down gear the amount of engine braking is not massive - if
you purely let off the accelerator doing 70mph on a flat road in top
gear you don\'t get very much retardation.

It is possible to change down for more, but the engine isn\'t happy
about it unless you match revs first, so in general it\'s easier to
use the brakes.

Engine braking is not something you\'d do around town or on a regular
motorway unless you\'re in a hilly area, so most people don\'t use it
very often.

Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use
engine braking for almost all stops, including around town.

I was, in 1997.  I stopped doing that as soon as I passed the test.
Braking is much more controllable.  Engine braking is all or nothing,
completely unsuitable for gracefully changing speed.

That\'s only because you don\'t know how to do it properly.

 Think about the erson behind you seeing a car lurching about with no
brakelights.

They soon learn not to drive too close to you.

These days they tend to rely on brakes and just change down to
whatever gear they expect to need as the set off or speed up again.

A much more sensible idea.

The best idea is to compromise with a sensible mixture of gear-changing
and braking.

After I used engine braking as I stopped at his motorcycle shop, the
owner told me that brake shoes were way cheaper than engine,
transmission and clutch repairs.

It\'s all old-hat anyway. The cars of the future, and a lot of them now,
use regenerative braking. Which is another new skill to learn.

Mine may be a bit elderly, but the level of regen available depends on
battery temperature and level of charge. Ideal for energy use
minimisation is to not use the brake pedal at all except to hold when
stopped, which means slowing down earlier when it\'s cold or you are
starting out with a full battery.

nib

 

[charles]

In article <u5ihg6$139l$1@dont-email.me>,
Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote:

On 6/4/2023 3:00 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message <op.15zhd1dgmvhs6z@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
CK1@nospam.com> writes
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:07:18 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:07, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use
that
to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of using
the
brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.

Both. With a manual transmission you get some degree of engine
braking, but
you coast if you open the clutch. Without actively changing down
gear the
amount of engine braking is not massive - if you purely let off the
accelerator doing 70mph on a flat road in top gear you don\'t get
very much
retardation.

It is possible to change down for more, but the engine isn\'t happy
about it
unless you match revs first, so in general it\'s easier to use the
brakes.

Engine braking is not something you\'d do around town or on a regular
motorway unless you\'re in a hilly area, so most people don\'t use it
very
often.

Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use engine
braking for almost all stops, including around town.

I was, in 1997. I stopped doing that as soon as I passed the test.
Braking is much more controllable. Engine braking is all or nothing,
completely unsuitable for gracefully changing speed.

That\'s only because you don\'t know how to do it properly.

Think about the erson behind you seeing a car lurching about with no
brakelights.

They soon learn not to drive too close to you.

These days they
tend to rely on brakes and just change down to whatever gear they expect
to need as the set off or speed up again.

A much more sensible idea.

The best idea is to compromise with a sensible mixture of gear-changing
and braking.

After I used engine braking as I stopped at his motorcycle shop, the
owner told me that brake shoes were way cheaper than engine,
transmission and clutch repairs.

I had a friend who changed gear to get engine breaking, His engine broke!

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
\"I\'d rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom\" Thomas Carlyle

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 04/06/2023 19:24, nib wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jun 2023 10:26:26 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 6/4/2023 3:00 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message <op.15zhd1dgmvhs6z@ryzen.home>, Commander Kinsey
CK1@nospam.com> writes
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 00:07:18 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:

On 19/04/2023 14:07, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust
the retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through
to quite aggressive braking.  Coasting is more like a regular
transmission where you have to use the brake pedal, whereas with
higher levels you can drive with accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use
that to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of
using the brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower
gear.

Both.  With a manual transmission you get some degree of engine
braking, but you coast if you open the clutch.  Without actively
changing down gear the amount of engine braking is not massive - if
you purely let off the accelerator doing 70mph on a flat road in top
gear you don\'t get very much retardation.

It is possible to change down for more, but the engine isn\'t happy
about it unless you match revs first, so in general it\'s easier to
use the brakes.

Engine braking is not something you\'d do around town or on a regular
motorway unless you\'re in a hilly area, so most people don\'t use it
very often.

Many of us were taught to change down through the gears and use
engine braking for almost all stops, including around town.

I was, in 1997.  I stopped doing that as soon as I passed the test.
Braking is much more controllable.  Engine braking is all or nothing,
completely unsuitable for gracefully changing speed.

That\'s only because you don\'t know how to do it properly.

 Think about the erson behind you seeing a car lurching about with no
brakelights.

They soon learn not to drive too close to you.

These days they tend to rely on brakes and just change down to
whatever gear they expect to need as the set off or speed up again.

A much more sensible idea.

The best idea is to compromise with a sensible mixture of gear-changing
and braking.

After I used engine braking as I stopped at his motorcycle shop, the
owner told me that brake shoes were way cheaper than engine,
transmission and clutch repairs.

It\'s all old-hat anyway. The cars of the future, and a lot of them now,
use regenerative braking. Which is another new skill to learn.

Mine may be a bit elderly, but the level of regen available depends on
battery temperature and level of charge. Ideal for energy use
minimisation is to not use the brake pedal at all except to hold when
stopped, which means slowing down earlier when it\'s cold or you are
starting out with a full battery.

nib

I use lift and coast, if I am not in a hurry. Very little engine braking
on an auto. The challenge is for the cruise control, set to 30mph, to
just cut in as you pass the 30 limit sign...


--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:54:40 +0100, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero where
regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can drive
with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the (gasoline)
car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is released. We use
that to maintain the speed when going down long slopes, instead of
using the brake. If we need more brake action, we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment to
your driving style to accommodate the small difference. Especially since
using the brake pedal will recharge your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how they
arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply them
or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

No, the pedal simply mechanically activates the brakes from halfway down onwards. Above that is by wire for regeneration.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 18:45:16 +0100, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it just
coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action, we
shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment
to your driving style to accommodate the small difference. Especially
since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how they
arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by an
electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off. The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so you
just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the brake
become \"hard\".

It should also take quite some time to run out of pressure.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 11:17:51 +0100, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2023-04-21 12:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/04/2023 18:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it, but
at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it
just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can adjust
the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through to
quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular transmission
where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action,
we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple adjustment
to your driving style to accommodate the small difference.
Especially since using the brake pedal will recharge your battery
for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how
they arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by an
electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off. The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so you
just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the brake
become \"hard\".

by totally I mean well beyond my ability to do anything more than
slightly better than coast to a atop. The steering became unusable too.


I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped,
press the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it
suddenly became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was spent.

Yes happened to me in stop start jam downhill on the M25 some years
ago. Kept on braking with the car idling. Suddenly no brakes...

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.

I am not sure but electric pumps instead of vacuum or engine driven ones
are getting more common.

On a BEV you would have no other option for power assist

I had a start-stop Corsa (you know, they stop the engine when the car
stops moving or nearly so, and start it automatically as you foot the
clutch). The brake did work with the motor stopped, and the steering
assist. The later I know was electric and would keep running from the
battery.

The book said the motor could start again if the steering or brakes were
used too much in that state.

Start stop is pointless, it saves fuck all petrol to turn the engine off for a minute.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 23:56:02 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

On 20/04/2023 22:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 22:48, SteveW wrote:
On 20/04/2023 18:45, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-20 11:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/04/2023 20:54, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 17:45, Bob F wrote:
On 4/19/2023 5:36 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-04-19 14:12, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Interesting.

How does it work, you foot the brake pedal, and the car decides
whether
to apply the actual brakes or generator mode?

In general yes. The car will decide whether to use regen or
friction
brakes. For example mostly regen if the battery can take it,
but at low
speeds friction might be used for the last few mph down to zero
where regen
is weak. Also in an emergency stop both might be used.

What happens when you release the accelerator pedal? Does it
just coast
along, or does it apply \"engine brake\" as in a gasoline car?

That\'s called \'one pedal driving\', and on many EVs you can
adjust the
retardation (regen) in a number of steps from coasting through
to quite
aggressive braking. Coasting is more like a regular
transmission where you
have to use the brake pedal, whereas with higher levels you can
drive with
accelerator alone.

By \"regular transmission\" you mean \"automatic\"?

Most cars here have a manual transmission, and on those the
(gasoline) car brakes somewhat when the accelerator pedal is
released. We use that to maintain the speed when going down long
slopes, instead of using the brake. If we need more brake action,
we shift to a lower gear.


Obviously, with an electric car, you would make a simple
adjustment to your driving style to accommodate the small
difference. Especially since using the brake pedal will recharge
your battery for free.

Of course, that\'s the advantage of electrics. I just wondered how
they arranged the controls.

Then the brakes must be \"by wire\", so that the car decides to apply
them or not. Makes me a bit uneasy.

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by
an electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off. The brakes vanished.

Totally?

That\'s not supposed to happen. You should only lose the assist, so
you just had to press the pedal harder. Depending, you\'d feel the
brake become \"hard\".

I remember that I would play with it. Car parked, engine stopped,
press the brake pedal and release. After two or three pushes, it
suddenly became stiff and would not yield: the vacuum storage was spent.

I don\'t know how the assist works in my current car (an Opel Corsa).
There is no vacuum storage in sight.

My father had a couple of Citroens, with their hydraulically assisted
brakes. There was an accumulator to allow the brakes to stop the car
if the engine failed, but after a couple of presses, there was NO
noticeable braking at all. When I had to tow him, we used a rigid bar,
as he effectively had no brakes and I needed to brake for both cars.
Luckily we were only going a mile and a half to a garage.

In my case, the brakes did work, but you had to press really hard.

That\'s normal for most cars, using vacuum servos to assist the existing
brake master cylinder. Citroens are different (they seem to like to be
weird), using a hydraulic pump to power the brakes (it also powers the
power steering and the rising and falling suspension), with a small
accumulator. Once that accumulator is emptied, not only is there no
assistance, but there are no brakes at all.

But their hydrogas suspension is amazing. Only Bose suspension beats it - you don\'t even feel speedbumps with it, it lifts the wheels over them after spotting them with a camera.

 

[NY]

\"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in message
newsp.153ltwommvhs6z@ryzen.home...

Start stop is pointless, it saves fuck all petrol to turn the engine off
for a minute.

I think the energy saving (or lack of it!) is not the only reason for using
start/stop. It also saves cars sitting in queues of traffic (eg at lights)
with their engines giving out exhaust fumes while the engine is idling. So
it\'s partly an anti-pollution thing.

I wonder how long the engine has to be turned off and then restarted, for it
to produce less exhaust / use less fuel than leaving the engine idling.
Bearing in mind the energy used by the battery to restart the engine, and
the fuel needed to replace this energy in the battery.

 

[NY]

\"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in message
newsp.153lw4nemvhs6z@ryzen.home...

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 23:56:02 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
That\'s normal for most cars, using vacuum servos to assist the existing
brake master cylinder. Citroens are different (they seem to like to be
weird), using a hydraulic pump to power the brakes (it also powers the
power steering and the rising and falling suspension), with a small
accumulator. Once that accumulator is emptied, not only is there no
assistance, but there are no brakes at all.

I\'m surprised that failure of the hydraulic pump would give no brakes at
all, because that would be a serious safety issue. Is the pump driven by
gears or by belt? Belts can break... I\'ve had the power steering fail on my
car when the \"fan belt\" broke. This drives the alternator and the PS pump.
The steering just became very heavy, but the car was still drivable - at
least as far as the nearest place where I could safely stop and wait for the
RAC. If the brakes had also been affected, it would have been a different
matter: the handbrake is bugger-all use at slowing a car down, especially if
you are trying to steer with one hand while pulling with all your strength
on the handbrake lever with the other hand.

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 06/06/2023 09:59, NY wrote:

\"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in message
newsp.153ltwommvhs6z@ryzen.home...

Start stop is pointless, it saves fuck all petrol to turn the engine
off for a minute.

I think the energy saving (or lack of it!) is not the only reason for
using start/stop. It also saves cars sitting in queues of traffic (eg at
lights) with their engines giving out exhaust fumes while the engine is
idling. So it\'s partly an anti-pollution thing.

I wonder how long the engine has to be turned off and then restarted,
for it to produce less exhaust  / use less fuel than leaving the engine
idling. Bearing in mind the energy used by the battery to restart the
engine, and the fuel needed to replace this energy in the battery.

Doesn\'t take a lot to start an engine. Less than a second at about 200A,
so 2.4kW seconds.

Or about 0.6 watt hours. Working on 10KWh per litre of fuel, very
roughly, that\'s around, 0.06cc of fuel equivalent to restart the car.

Sources suggest an idling car engine uses \'up to 2 litres per hour\' so
lets say an average of one litre per hour.

How long does it take to use 0.06cc? = 0.06 x 3.6 seconds. about 0.2
seconds.

Which suggests that given a decent warm fast starting engine it is
ALWAYS worth while cutting the engine when halted.

The downside is that it may not restart, or take time to do it. Not
having the engine running in a hybrid situation is what gives them great
fuel economy in urban situations, along with regenerative braking.

Makes them no better on a long run tho...



--
“Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”

H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 06/06/2023 10:05, NY wrote:

\"Commander Kinsey\" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in message
newsp.153lw4nemvhs6z@ryzen.home...
On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 23:56:02 +0100, SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk
wrote:
That\'s normal for most cars, using vacuum servos to assist the existing
brake master cylinder. Citroens are different (they seem to like to be
weird), using a hydraulic pump to power the brakes (it also powers the
power steering and the rising and falling suspension), with a small
accumulator. Once that accumulator is emptied, not only is there no
assistance, but there are no brakes at all.

I\'m surprised that failure of the hydraulic pump would give no brakes at
all, because that would be a serious safety issue. Is the pump driven by
gears or by belt? Belts can break...  I\'ve had the power steering fail
on my car when the \"fan belt\" broke. This drives the alternator and the
PS pump. The steering just became very heavy, but the car was still
drivable - at least as far as the nearest place where I could safely
stop and wait for the RAC. If the brakes had also been affected, it
would have been a different matter: the handbrake is bugger-all use at
slowing a car down, especially if you are trying to steer with one hand
while pulling with all your strength on the handbrake lever with the
other hand.

Normally both steering and brakes will be affected, but not to a
completely non working extent, by loss of whatever power assistance
they normally enjoy.

I remember doing what used to do with previous (vacuum) braked cars on
my XJS, Cut the engine before coming to a halt. Nearly ran into the
garage! Almost impossible to steer and extremely heavy braking.

I\'ve also seen my brakes \'fade\' under prolonged start stop on an M25
queue. The engine simply isn\'t sucking hard enough to replenish the
vacuum after three or four consecutive stops, at idle.


--
“It is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of
intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is
futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every
criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
power-directed system of thought.”
Sir Roger Scruton

 

[me]

On 6/5/2023 11:40 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Start stop is pointless, it saves fuck all petrol to turn the engine off
for a minute.

The money you might save on gas you\'ll spend replacing the starter motor.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, June 6, 2023 at 8:56:57 PM UTC+10, me wrote:

On 6/5/2023 11:40 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:


Start stop is pointless, it saves fuck all petrol to turn the engine off
for a minute.
The money you might save on gas you\'ll spend replacing the starter motor.

Back when they were DC motors with brushes and commutators this might have been true.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 06/06/2023 11:56, me wrote:

On 6/5/2023 11:40 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:


Start stop is pointless, it saves fuck all petrol to turn the engine
off for a minute.

The money you might save on gas you\'ll spend replacing the starter motor.
As usual kinsey is exactly wrong, as are you

--
\"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them.\"

 

[devnull]

On 6/6/2023 7:22 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/06/2023 11:56, me wrote:
On 6/5/2023 11:40 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:


Start stop is pointless, it saves fuck all petrol to turn the engine
off for a minute.

The money you might save on gas you\'ll spend replacing the starter motor.
As usual  kinsey is exactly wrong, as are you

The more you use the starter, the sooner it will wear out.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, June 6, 2023 at 9:22:10 PM UTC+10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/06/2023 11:56, me wrote:
On 6/5/2023 11:40 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

<snip>

> \"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will let them.\"

Feminists do seem to think that women can and should do anything they want to. Why on earth the Natural Philosopher would imagine that feminists might try stop women doing anything escapes me.

He is a sucker for nonsensical verbal formulas, but this one is remarkably nonsensical, even for him.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2023-04-20, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Not arf as uneasy as power assisted brakes that lose power assistance.

I had a manual XJS once. The brakes were fed not by vacuum, but by an
electric pump.

I was just coasting to a halt in my drive when I switched the engine
off. The brakes vanished.

That\'s a symptom of a broken brake booster check valve.

--
Jasen.
🇺🇦 Слава Україні

 

[Peeler]

On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 09:59:56 +0100, NY, the really endlessly blathering,
notorious, troll-feeding, senile asshole, blathered, yet again:


> I think

I think you are a troll-feeding SENILE ASSHOLE, cretin!