EU vows to protect energy systems after \'sabotage\' on Russian gas pipelines...

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 12:44:06 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 29. september 2022 kl. 17.50.33 UTC+2 skrev bill....@ieee.org:
On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 1:28:55 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed. Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most dependably undependable country in the world.
Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure cuts off
their options.

They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe, including
plain meanness and stupidity.

\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a \"robust
and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?

They want to punish the northern Europeans for giving Ukraine weapons in amounts that exceed the entire annual Russian defense budget.

Nah, they can do that without trashing expensive infrastructure.
Seawater does nasty things when it gets inside pipelines.

European voters are unfortunately going to get a good look at the
reasons you shouldn\'t allow an autistic seventeen-year-old to dictate
your energy policy. Hopefully the survivors will remember the tragic
lesson.
Greta Thunberg didn\'t dictate anybody\'s energy policy, She did make a good case for reduced reliance on burning fossil carbon as an energy source.. If she\'d been taken more seriously, Europe might not now be quite so dependent on Russian natural gas.

Since moving to renewable energy sources involves a lot of capital investment, it was never going to happen fast, and her influence was never going to speed it up enough to make much difference to the current situation. Most of the motivation to make the move is that renewable energy sources offer cheaper electricity than burning fossil carbon or U-235, so there\'s not a lot of idealism involved.
\"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.\"
The climate change denial lobby is greedy, rather than mad, but they\'ve got to be pretty silly to to be that greedy for short term gain and remarkably dumb to ignore the long term damage (though most of that is showing up in Florida at the moment).


well the same people who have been yelling at politicians for not saving the world from global warming is now yelling for taxes on energy to be removed
because it is too expensive, I guess the environment is only important when it doesn\'t cost anything or someone else has to pay
Some people, not you and me, can\'t afford to keep their houses warm.

\"Let them eat ice.\"

They can make coal gas- there was a time when it was the only kind available. You\'re not old enough to remember.

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 11:28:55 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs
wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-4, John
Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered
two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks
and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed.
Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most
dependably undependable country in the world.

Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure
cuts off their options.

They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe,
including plain meanness and stupidity.


\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a
\"robust and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?

They want to punish the northern Europeans for giving Ukraine
weapons in amounts that exceed the entire annual Russian defense
budget.

Nah, they can do that without trashing expensive infrastructure.
Seawater does nasty things when it gets inside pipelines.

European voters are unfortunately going to get a good look at the
reasons you shouldn\'t allow an autistic seventeen-year-old to
dictate your energy policy. Hopefully the survivors will remember
the tragic lesson.

\"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.\"

They mean mad in the sense of insane.

Yer kiddin.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 29. september 2022 kl. 18.44.06 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 29. september 2022 kl. 17.50.33 UTC+2 skrev bill....@ieee.org:
On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 1:28:55 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed. Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most dependably undependable country in the world.
Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure cuts off
their options.

They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe, including
plain meanness and stupidity.

\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a \"robust
and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?

They want to punish the northern Europeans for giving Ukraine weapons in amounts that exceed the entire annual Russian defense budget.

Nah, they can do that without trashing expensive infrastructure.
Seawater does nasty things when it gets inside pipelines.

European voters are unfortunately going to get a good look at the
reasons you shouldn\'t allow an autistic seventeen-year-old to dictate
your energy policy. Hopefully the survivors will remember the tragic
lesson.
Greta Thunberg didn\'t dictate anybody\'s energy policy, She did make a good case for reduced reliance on burning fossil carbon as an energy source.. If she\'d been taken more seriously, Europe might not now be quite so dependent on Russian natural gas.

Since moving to renewable energy sources involves a lot of capital investment, it was never going to happen fast, and her influence was never going to speed it up enough to make much difference to the current situation. Most of the motivation to make the move is that renewable energy sources offer cheaper electricity than burning fossil carbon or U-235, so there\'s not a lot of idealism involved.
\"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.\"
The climate change denial lobby is greedy, rather than mad, but they\'ve got to be pretty silly to to be that greedy for short term gain and remarkably dumb to ignore the long term damage (though most of that is showing up in Florida at the moment).


well the same people who have been yelling at politicians for not saving the world from global warming is now yelling for taxes on energy to be removed
because it is too expensive, I guess the environment is only important when it doesn\'t cost anything or someone else has to pay
Some people, not you and me, can\'t afford to keep their houses warm.

I know, but I don\'t think they were the ones yelling for the politician to save the world

I have district heating from a powerplant, cement factory and trash incineration. The price is unchanged from last year
since the heat from the factory and incineration is basically surplus and the powerplant plant makes up the increase in
coal prices on the increase in electricity prices (the district heating is legally required to only break even because is owned by the municipality)

my sister has district heating from a gas/heatpump plant, there the price is quadrupled

 

[Martin Brown]

On 28/09/2022 15:45, John Larkin wrote:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed. Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most dependably undependable country in the world.

Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure cuts off
their options.

Damaging infrastructure demonstrates a capability to disrupt other
non-Russian pipelines as well. I\'m not entirely convinced that they did
it but it was almost certainly a very capable nation state actor that did.

I find that option even less appealing though YMMV.

They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe, including
plain meanness and stupidity.

Damaged pipes makes a much more effective excuse. They have already
shutdown these pipelines - it could be a very cold dark winter.

\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a \"robust
and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?

I guess we and the EU might stop buying oil from them entirely. That is
if the UK has any ability to buy anything priced in dollars by then.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:12:58 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 12:44:06 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 29. september 2022 kl. 17.50.33 UTC+2 skrev bill....@ieee.org:
On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 1:28:55 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed. Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most dependably undependable country in the world.
Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure cuts off
their options.

They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe, including
plain meanness and stupidity.

\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a \"robust
and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?

They want to punish the northern Europeans for giving Ukraine weapons in amounts that exceed the entire annual Russian defense budget.

Nah, they can do that without trashing expensive infrastructure.
Seawater does nasty things when it gets inside pipelines.

European voters are unfortunately going to get a good look at the
reasons you shouldn\'t allow an autistic seventeen-year-old to dictate
your energy policy. Hopefully the survivors will remember the tragic
lesson.
Greta Thunberg didn\'t dictate anybody\'s energy policy, She did make a good case for reduced reliance on burning fossil carbon as an energy source. If she\'d been taken more seriously, Europe might not now be quite so dependent on Russian natural gas.

Since moving to renewable energy sources involves a lot of capital investment, it was never going to happen fast, and her influence was never going to speed it up enough to make much difference to the current situation. Most of the motivation to make the move is that renewable energy sources offer cheaper electricity than burning fossil carbon or U-235, so there\'s not a lot of idealism involved.
\"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.\"
The climate change denial lobby is greedy, rather than mad, but they\'ve got to be pretty silly to to be that greedy for short term gain and remarkably dumb to ignore the long term damage (though most of that is showing up in Florida at the moment).


well the same people who have been yelling at politicians for not saving the world from global warming is now yelling for taxes on energy to be removed
because it is too expensive, I guess the environment is only important when it doesn\'t cost anything or someone else has to pay
Some people, not you and me, can\'t afford to keep their houses warm.

\"Let them eat ice.\"

They can make coal gas- there was a time when it was the only kind available. You\'re not old enough to remember.

Are you old enough to remember gas lights?

My old Victorian house, built in 1892, had capped-off gas pipes
running into all the ceiling light fixtures. That was replaced by more
modern knob-and-tube electricals.

Gas lights were dirty and dangerous. Coal gas was mainly CO.

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 12:28:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 29. september 2022 kl. 18.44.06 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 29. september 2022 kl. 17.50.33 UTC+2 skrev bill....@ieee.org:
On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 1:28:55 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed. Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most dependably undependable country in the world.
Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure cuts off
their options.

They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe, including
plain meanness and stupidity.

\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a \"robust
and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?

They want to punish the northern Europeans for giving Ukraine weapons in amounts that exceed the entire annual Russian defense budget.

Nah, they can do that without trashing expensive infrastructure.
Seawater does nasty things when it gets inside pipelines.

European voters are unfortunately going to get a good look at the
reasons you shouldn\'t allow an autistic seventeen-year-old to dictate
your energy policy. Hopefully the survivors will remember the tragic
lesson.
Greta Thunberg didn\'t dictate anybody\'s energy policy, She did make a good case for reduced reliance on burning fossil carbon as an energy source. If she\'d been taken more seriously, Europe might not now be quite so dependent on Russian natural gas.

Since moving to renewable energy sources involves a lot of capital investment, it was never going to happen fast, and her influence was never going to speed it up enough to make much difference to the current situation. Most of the motivation to make the move is that renewable energy sources offer cheaper electricity than burning fossil carbon or U-235, so there\'s not a lot of idealism involved.
\"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.\"
The climate change denial lobby is greedy, rather than mad, but they\'ve got to be pretty silly to to be that greedy for short term gain and remarkably dumb to ignore the long term damage (though most of that is showing up in Florida at the moment).


well the same people who have been yelling at politicians for not saving the world from global warming is now yelling for taxes on energy to be removed
because it is too expensive, I guess the environment is only important when it doesn\'t cost anything or someone else has to pay
Some people, not you and me, can\'t afford to keep their houses warm.

I know, but I don\'t think they were the ones yelling for the politician to save the world

I have district heating from a powerplant, cement factory and trash incineration. The price is unchanged from last year
since the heat from the factory and incineration is basically surplus and the powerplant plant makes up the increase in
coal prices on the increase in electricity prices (the district heating is legally required to only break even because is owned by the municipality)

my sister has district heating from a gas/heatpump plant, there the price is quadrupled

When I was in Moscow, the apartments had unmetered heat from city
pipes under the street. If it got too hot, people would open their
windows.

I installed a heat flow meter in a new hotel building, which was going
to pay for the hot water. I guessed about calibration and, being an
American Capitalist, they believed me.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 12:17:36 PM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:12:58 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 12:44:06 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 29. september 2022 kl. 17.50.33 UTC+2 skrev bill....@ieee..org:
On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 1:28:55 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed. Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most dependably undependable country in the world.
Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure cuts off
their options.

They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe, including
plain meanness and stupidity.

\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a \"robust
and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?

They want to punish the northern Europeans for giving Ukraine weapons in amounts that exceed the entire annual Russian defense budget.

Nah, they can do that without trashing expensive infrastructure.
Seawater does nasty things when it gets inside pipelines.

European voters are unfortunately going to get a good look at the
reasons you shouldn\'t allow an autistic seventeen-year-old to dictate
your energy policy. Hopefully the survivors will remember the tragic
lesson.
Greta Thunberg didn\'t dictate anybody\'s energy policy, She did make a good case for reduced reliance on burning fossil carbon as an energy source. If she\'d been taken more seriously, Europe might not now be quite so dependent on Russian natural gas.

Since moving to renewable energy sources involves a lot of capital investment, it was never going to happen fast, and her influence was never going to speed it up enough to make much difference to the current situation. Most of the motivation to make the move is that renewable energy sources offer cheaper electricity than burning fossil carbon or U-235, so there\'s not a lot of idealism involved.
\"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.\"
The climate change denial lobby is greedy, rather than mad, but they\'ve got to be pretty silly to to be that greedy for short term gain and remarkably dumb to ignore the long term damage (though most of that is showing up in Florida at the moment).


well the same people who have been yelling at politicians for not saving the world from global warming is now yelling for taxes on energy to be removed
because it is too expensive, I guess the environment is only important when it doesn\'t cost anything or someone else has to pay
Some people, not you and me, can\'t afford to keep their houses warm.

\"Let them eat ice.\"

They can make coal gas- there was a time when it was the only kind available. You\'re not old enough to remember.
Are you old enough to remember gas lights?

My old Victorian house, built in 1892, had capped-off gas pipes
running into all the ceiling light fixtures. That was replaced by more
modern knob-and-tube electricals.

Gas lights were dirty and dangerous. Coal gas was mainly CO.

What was mainly used was water gas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_gas

which is actually a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen, and could contain quite a lot of nitrogen too. Carbon monoxide is toxic, and hydrogen is dangerous. The dirt would have been soot - finely divided carbon - which would have come from incidental hydrocarbon contaminants in the gas.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

fredag den 30. september 2022 kl. 04.22.49 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:

On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 12:28:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 29. september 2022 kl. 18.44.06 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 29. september 2022 kl. 17.50.33 UTC+2 skrev bill....@ieee..org:
On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 1:28:55 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed. Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most dependably undependable country in the world.
Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure cuts off
their options.

They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe, including
plain meanness and stupidity.

\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a \"robust
and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?

They want to punish the northern Europeans for giving Ukraine weapons in amounts that exceed the entire annual Russian defense budget.

Nah, they can do that without trashing expensive infrastructure.
Seawater does nasty things when it gets inside pipelines.

European voters are unfortunately going to get a good look at the
reasons you shouldn\'t allow an autistic seventeen-year-old to dictate
your energy policy. Hopefully the survivors will remember the tragic
lesson.
Greta Thunberg didn\'t dictate anybody\'s energy policy, She did make a good case for reduced reliance on burning fossil carbon as an energy source. If she\'d been taken more seriously, Europe might not now be quite so dependent on Russian natural gas.

Since moving to renewable energy sources involves a lot of capital investment, it was never going to happen fast, and her influence was never going to speed it up enough to make much difference to the current situation. Most of the motivation to make the move is that renewable energy sources offer cheaper electricity than burning fossil carbon or U-235, so there\'s not a lot of idealism involved.
\"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.\"
The climate change denial lobby is greedy, rather than mad, but they\'ve got to be pretty silly to to be that greedy for short term gain and remarkably dumb to ignore the long term damage (though most of that is showing up in Florida at the moment).


well the same people who have been yelling at politicians for not saving the world from global warming is now yelling for taxes on energy to be removed
because it is too expensive, I guess the environment is only important when it doesn\'t cost anything or someone else has to pay
Some people, not you and me, can\'t afford to keep their houses warm.

I know, but I don\'t think they were the ones yelling for the politician to save the world

I have district heating from a powerplant, cement factory and trash incineration. The price is unchanged from last year
since the heat from the factory and incineration is basically surplus and the powerplant plant makes up the increase in
coal prices on the increase in electricity prices (the district heating is legally required to only break even because is owned by the municipality)

my sister has district heating from a gas/heatpump plant, there the price is quadrupled
When I was in Moscow, the apartments had unmetered heat from city
pipes under the street. If it got too hot, people would open their
windows.

yeh, I\'ve heard that it is only turned on between certain dates

There are other place that used the return water to heat side walks, if the heat is surplus from
a powerplant they have to get rid of it somehow

I installed a heat flow meter in a new hotel building, which was going
to pay for the hot water. I guessed about calibration and, being an
American Capitalist, they believed me.

here they used to bill per m^3, now it is kWh with a bonus/penalty of 2% per C
if the average return temperature is lower/higher than a limit based on inlet temperature

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2022 07:40:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

fredag den 30. september 2022 kl. 04.22.49 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 12:28:15 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 29. september 2022 kl. 18.44.06 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2022 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 29. september 2022 kl. 17.50.33 UTC+2 skrev bill....@ieee.org:
On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 1:28:55 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed. Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most dependably undependable country in the world.
Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure cuts off
their options.

They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe, including
plain meanness and stupidity.

\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a \"robust
and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?

They want to punish the northern Europeans for giving Ukraine weapons in amounts that exceed the entire annual Russian defense budget.

Nah, they can do that without trashing expensive infrastructure.
Seawater does nasty things when it gets inside pipelines.

European voters are unfortunately going to get a good look at the
reasons you shouldn\'t allow an autistic seventeen-year-old to dictate
your energy policy. Hopefully the survivors will remember the tragic
lesson.
Greta Thunberg didn\'t dictate anybody\'s energy policy, She did make a good case for reduced reliance on burning fossil carbon as an energy source. If she\'d been taken more seriously, Europe might not now be quite so dependent on Russian natural gas.

Since moving to renewable energy sources involves a lot of capital investment, it was never going to happen fast, and her influence was never going to speed it up enough to make much difference to the current situation. Most of the motivation to make the move is that renewable energy sources offer cheaper electricity than burning fossil carbon or U-235, so there\'s not a lot of idealism involved.
\"Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad.\"
The climate change denial lobby is greedy, rather than mad, but they\'ve got to be pretty silly to to be that greedy for short term gain and remarkably dumb to ignore the long term damage (though most of that is showing up in Florida at the moment).


well the same people who have been yelling at politicians for not saving the world from global warming is now yelling for taxes on energy to be removed
because it is too expensive, I guess the environment is only important when it doesn\'t cost anything or someone else has to pay
Some people, not you and me, can\'t afford to keep their houses warm.

I know, but I don\'t think they were the ones yelling for the politician to save the world

I have district heating from a powerplant, cement factory and trash incineration. The price is unchanged from last year
since the heat from the factory and incineration is basically surplus and the powerplant plant makes up the increase in
coal prices on the increase in electricity prices (the district heating is legally required to only break even because is owned by the municipality)

my sister has district heating from a gas/heatpump plant, there the price is quadrupled
When I was in Moscow, the apartments had unmetered heat from city
pipes under the street. If it got too hot, people would open their
windows.

yeh, I\'ve heard that it is only turned on between certain dates

It was, and apartments had no individual control over their radiators.

At our construction site, hardly anybody worked and workers stole
everything \"It doesn\'t belong to anybody.\"

\"We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us\"

There are other place that used the return water to heat side walks, if the heat is surplus from
a powerplant they have to get rid of it somehow


I installed a heat flow meter in a new hotel building, which was going
to pay for the hot water. I guessed about calibration and, being an
American Capitalist, they believed me.

here they used to bill per m^3, now it is kWh with a bonus/penalty of 2% per C
if the average return temperature is lower/higher than a limit based on inlet temperature

I was given a (Dresser?) flow meter with units in degrees F and
barrels and orfice plate dims poorly defined. I converted to kcals or
something and they believed my math.

American Capitalists were treated like gods. We got escorted onto warm
planes while russians had to stand outside in the cold rain. We could
buy delicacies like fresh fruit that ordinary russians couldn\'t. Crazy
way to treat people.

People sneered at roubles for tips. They wanted hard currency so they
could buy goodies out the back doors of the limited-access shops.
Russian women were eager to marry us and get out of there.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 4:45:40 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

On 28/09/2022 15:45, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed. Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most dependably undependable country in the world.

Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure cuts off
their options.
Damaging infrastructure demonstrates a capability to disrupt other
non-Russian pipelines as well. I\'m not entirely convinced that they did
it but it was almost certainly a very capable nation state actor that did..

I find that option even less appealing though YMMV.
They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe, including
plain meanness and stupidity.
Damaged pipes makes a much more effective excuse. They have already
shutdown these pipelines - it could be a very cold dark winter.
\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a \"robust
and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?
I guess we and the EU might stop buying oil from them entirely. That is
if the UK has any ability to buy anything priced in dollars by then.

Russia will save themselves upwards of $30B in fines and other compensation for failure to meet the terms of its contracts to supply that gas. Impossibility due to unanticipated circumstances, what they\'re calling force majeure, removes the contractual obligation and legal burden of the contracts.
It\'s so obvious, one wonders why EU was taken by surprise on this.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Ed Lee]

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 11:17:03 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 4:45:40 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 28/09/2022 15:45, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed. Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most dependably undependable country in the world.

Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure cuts off
their options.
Damaging infrastructure demonstrates a capability to disrupt other
non-Russian pipelines as well. I\'m not entirely convinced that they did
it but it was almost certainly a very capable nation state actor that did.

I find that option even less appealing though YMMV.
They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe, including
plain meanness and stupidity.
Damaged pipes makes a much more effective excuse. They have already
shutdown these pipelines - it could be a very cold dark winter.
\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a \"robust
and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?
I guess we and the EU might stop buying oil from them entirely. That is
if the UK has any ability to buy anything priced in dollars by then.
Russia will save themselves upwards of $30B in fines and other compensation for failure to meet the terms of its contracts to supply that gas. Impossibility due to unanticipated circumstances, what they\'re calling force majeure, removes the contractual obligation and legal burden of the contracts.
It\'s so obvious, one wonders why EU was taken by surprise on this.

Would Kremlin really care such rules and fines, as compared to other rules that have been broken? Stories sound fishy (reports of Russian submarine). I believe it\'s some military hardliners wanting to force Putin in WWIII.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 2:32:50 PM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:

On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 11:17:03 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 4:45:40 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 28/09/2022 15:45, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2022 04:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

This incident has Russian fingerprints all over it.

Seismologists in Denmark and Sweden said they had registered two powerful blasts on Monday in the vicinity of the leaks and the explosions were in the water, not under the seabed. Ummm...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

Serves the idiots right for making themselves dependent on the most dependably undependable country in the world.

Why would the russkies dynamite their own pipeline? It sure cuts off
their options.
Damaging infrastructure demonstrates a capability to disrupt other
non-Russian pipelines as well. I\'m not entirely convinced that they did
it but it was almost certainly a very capable nation state actor that did.

I find that option even less appealing though YMMV.
They can find a zillion excuses to shut off gas to europe, including
plain meanness and stupidity.
Damaged pipes makes a much more effective excuse. They have already
shutdown these pipelines - it could be a very cold dark winter.
\"Any intentional disruption to EU energy networks would meet a \"robust
and united response\", its top diplomat said...\"

What can that possibly mean? Order more wool sox?
I guess we and the EU might stop buying oil from them entirely. That is
if the UK has any ability to buy anything priced in dollars by then.
Russia will save themselves upwards of $30B in fines and other compensation for failure to meet the terms of its contracts to supply that gas. Impossibility due to unanticipated circumstances, what they\'re calling force majeure, removes the contractual obligation and legal burden of the contracts.
It\'s so obvious, one wonders why EU was taken by surprise on this.
Would Kremlin really care such rules and fines, as compared to other rules that have been broken? Stories sound fishy (reports of Russian submarine).. I believe it\'s some military hardliners wanting to force Putin in WWIII.

Nah- that useless good-for-nothing has been squeezing European gas supplies since the beginning of this year. Sometime last spring he issued a decree demanding that all gas payments be made in rubles via a roundabout currency conversion through their Gazprombank which would put the money out of reach of being frozen under sanctions. That move caused a lot of problems with some EU countries complying and others refusing. A few European countries like Poland and Bulgaria have been completely cut-off. Manipulation of gas availability is all Russia has left- they have a crappy little economy that mainly survives on energy and grain exports. The gas exports alone account for a full one half of their government revenue, that could have something to do with global warming disinformation campaigns in Europe too- there\'s no shortage of brainless dupes there, one of them even posts to SED a lot. At the rate EU is buying gas from Russia, it doesn\'t take long for them to accumulate a huge debt which they could legally cancel if Russia continues with its default on delivery. There might be other debt they could hold over Russia. The idiots have been warned for decades about their growing dependence on Russia, and they never acted on it. Well they\'ll act on it now. Russia is also disrupting the availability of various critical minerals they mine for export. It\'s causing problems but nothing huge like energy.